Episode Transcript
[00:00:18] Speaker A: One thing we know, construction always takes longer than planned. That much we know. It's. Well, it's almost a certainty. The other certainty is it almost always costs more than it planned.
We set out in July of 2024 to repave the Romans Road. 12 weeks. I said, by the high holidays, we'll have this book figured out, right? Well, we've made it just not exactly 12 weeks, right? Megan Spearman, who told me, I heard you say 12 weeks. I was like, yeah, right, 18 weeks of teaching. Actually, this is the 18th, but we're at the end, spread out over much long than that. So the construction, like any project of the Romans Road, has taken longer than we thought. And it has certainly required investment, more investment.
Even knowing what I thought the cost was going to be, the investment has been higher, but not just for me, but for you. You've had to listen, you've had to engage. It's been an investment and expenditure of our energy and our learning for both of us.
You know, it's complicated stuff.
So I saw a comment this week that said, I listened to this message. I'm going to go back and listen to it like three more times so that I can make sure I get it. Which at first I thought, well, gosh, I'm a terrible teacher. But then I realized, no, she was saying, there's a lot of stuff in it that I need to know. I talked to a friend in Arizona, Chuck, 30 plus years. I was having a conversation with him about something he said, I was very excited when you said, I'm going to do Romans, because I thought, wow, this will give me a lot of the answers I need. Last week I talked to him. He said, well, turns out I'll be starting over again and going back and listening. Because what's happened is I've actually raised more questions. Okay, great. Listen. It's a road. A road is not meant to be paved and then never used again. It's to be used. We're going to traverse it, we're going to go back and forth on it. We're going to learn, but you've got a foundation. Okay?
Now, by way of acknowledgment, and I will make this more exciting than this, but by way of acknowledgment, there are so many people who have now, I feel, personally impacted my life going through this, from Runar Thorstenson to Pamela Eisenbaum to Rafael Rodriguez, Matthew Novenson, Paula Fredrickson, Mark Nanos, William Campbell, all of these people that I've referenced throughout this series. Scholars who've devoted their lives. I would be remiss if I did not also acknowledge, though, my friend Ryan Lambert, who I have a very strong friendship with, who is also very much a Paul within Judaism guy. And Ryan, you wouldn't know, but every single week, every teaching, every preparation, I recorded it and sent it to him and made him listen to it, and he critiqued it and he criticized what needed to be changed. And he listened and he supported and he encouraged. So I couldn't actually have done this without Ryan, but it gives me an opportunity because Ryan also has. I said he's a Paul within Judaism guy. He's also an author who has written a book about Paul, which is called the Weird Apostle. Okay. It's on Amazon.
I recommend it. You should pick this up. It's written for the common man. Doesn't mean it's simple. It doesn't mean it's trivial. It's a great thing. And I want to encourage people to pick this up and share it with other people. Now, here's the thing. All of those people that I just mentioned, brilliant people, have spent their lives dedicated to Paul.
And they've been to classes and have multiple degrees, and guess what? They're still talking about Paul. They're still trying to figure things out about Paul. Why? Because Paul is difficult.
And of all the things. How can you say that? It's the Bible. I can say it because that's in the Bible that Paul is difficult.
We know this to be a scriptural thing. Paul is hard to get. Second Peter, therefore, beloved, while you are waiting for these things, strive to be found by him at peace, without spot or blemish, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given to him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand.
It's biblical. And from Peter's words we can understand. A lot of Paul's teaching is tough stuff, but especially given the level of confusion and misinterpretation we've had to address. Peter was right.
Paul can be hard to understand, but not impossible. What good would his writings be if you had to be Paula Fredriksson or Runar Thorstenson to understand them.
There's some hope, but you have to read them in context with the audience. The purpose, past, present, future, expectations for Paul. You have to see those things as they are. His social, his religious connections, his citizenships, his allegiance. And I've certainly shown you along this road how significant the Effects of these misunderstandings about those things have been for the last 1900 years plus of Christian teaching.
I want to review and conclude our series today, which only includes a very brief mention of the last two chapters of Romans 15:16, because they make a point of the overall conclusion of this series. And I want to give you a major takeaway, a lens you'll keep with you going through as you read and traverse the Romans road, through which you can remember our work that we've done here and apply it to your conversations with those who hold a different view of Romans. And I promise you there is no shortage of them.
So what have we learned?
Well, first of all, we can confidently conclude that Paul would be shocked that we're having this discussion at all for one primary reason, and that is the imminent return of the Messiah.
Paul had an urgency to his mission, what we would call an imminent theology.
Paul absolutely expected the return of Jesus, the Messiah and the fulfillment of God's kingdom to occur in the near future, during his lifetime or shortly thereafter.
This expectation of this imminent eschatological event that profoundly shaped his theology and his life and his ethics and his pastoral advice. And the key indicator for Paul for that was all of these Gentiles coming in and attaching themselves to the God of Israel. Clearly, and you can read it in Acts 15 clearly, this was unexpected and the fact that it was happening indicated God is moving. It's the end. It's the end of it. Based on the Gentiles emphatic reception of Jesus, Paul could write in Romans, salvation is now nearer than when we first believed.
By that he means Yeshua is back. Coming back, I should say.
Paula Fredrickson the vivid apocalyptic expectation was the drive wheel of the first generation of the movement, which firmly believed that it would be the only generation of the movement.
You get it?
No one thought we'd be here talking about this, including Paul.
And it wasn't just Paul. Yeshua's disciples expected the kingdom the same way, didn't they? Is now the time you're going to restore the kingdom? All of the people actually who were followers of Yeshua were looking around and saying, he's coming back, he's got to come back. That text I just read you about from Second Peter, about people about Paul being difficult to understand, the context of that is actually about the tarrying of the Lord, because all of the people are being told, he's not coming back. You've believed a lie.
It says, first of all, you must understand, this is Second Peter three. You must understand this, that in the last days, scoffers will come. Still sticking to the this is the last days thing, right? In the last days, scoffers will come, scoffing and indulging their own lust and saying, where is the promise of his coming forever? Since our ancestors died, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation. And this actually leads Peter to into the thing about Paul in 2 Peter 3:3, where he says, listen, Paul's hard to understand, but when you read his letters, what he's telling you is, salvation's near, the kingdom's coming. Just hold on. It's like he's referencing Romans in 2 Peter 3:3. He's saying to the people, he's going to come soon, just hang tight.
There are some things Paul says that are hard to understand.
But two, Peter is saying, even Paul says, the plan's in place, hang tight. But 2,000 years later, we're still waiting, right?
And I think Paul would be surprised. So would Peter. So would Peter. So would Mary. Actually, Peter, Paul and Mary would all be surprised that we're still waiting.
But the other thing that would really surprise Paul is how his theology got a name, Pauline theology, and how incredibly misunderstood it is.
That would really, really surprise him, how much of a mess it has become and how misunderstood this message, specifically in the very things that Paul said not to do, don't do these things. Don't think too highly of yourselves. Written specifically to the Gentiles. Don't become arrogant. Written to the Gentiles. Don't think that God has done with the Jewish people. Written to the gentiles. The very things he said don't do are the exact things that have been done, undeniably.
Search YouTube for some interpretations of Romans.
They're easy to articulate because it's easy to see how Paul was changed through the decades, through the centuries, now millennia. And what I propose is his very misunderstood theological framework, because here's what happened and this is review. I know, but Paul becomes not just an ex j but an anti Jew.
Again. I quote Fredrickson, chapter 21 of the Acts of the Apostles. We glimpse a disavowed misrepresentation of Paul that would go on to have a long and defining future.
In other words, he was accused of this and he completely rejected it. So did Luke. In Luke's narrative, Paul and his entourage have just arrived in Jerusalem. James then warns Paul about a rumor circulating about him that you teach all the Jews to live among the Gentiles, to forsake Moses, telling them neither to CIRCUMCISE their children nor observe their ancestral customs. Luke repudiates the rumor. So does his hero Paul. Luke loved Paul. Yet exactly this view, this view of a De Judaized Paul describes how many of his early continuators regarded him. And indeed that view, ex Jew, anti Jew, continues very much today. Dominates New Testament Testament scholarship today.
Paul ceased to be Jewish and to live according to Jewish custom. But fairly quickly, and here's the shocking part of it, fairly quickly, something bigger happened relative to Yeshua and Paul. Paul's God underwent a similar change.
The ethnicity of the High God shifted. God the Father lost any Jewish connection, any affiliation, any sympathy because he became the God of a new people, of the Church.
Now this is bold, but listen.
The Christian church has loved the idea of finding its origin in Judaism and ancient Israel, but has generally hated the Jews.
The Christian church has loved the idea of finding its origin in Judaism and ancient Israel, but has generally hated the Jews. Now I know a lot of people that that doesn't apply to some many people but history tells the undeniable story that in large part it's true.
Now I'm reading a book called Crucified by a scholar who talks about and traces and you can watch the evolution of the anti Judaism rise and how even though the Romans killed Jesus as the writings come through the end of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd into the 4th centuries now Rome and Pilate are nowhere to be found.
It's the Jews, the Jews, the Jews.
And that foundation is what supports this idea that the Christian church has loved the idea of finding its origin in Judaism and ancient Israel but has generally hated the Jews. I'm quoting Stanley Stowers when I say that a rereading of Romans and I forgot to mention him. He has been an absolute pillar for so many people.
But as this relates to Paul, Paul is read as the critic of Jewish legalism and the law. He served as a model for that love hate relationship. The traditional interpretations read him as a continuator of true Judaism, true Judaism, biblical Jewish religion of prophets, a spiritual religion of faith. But not of the temple, not of the people, not of the law. But what we've learned and what Stowers quotes is Judaism without the Law is like Christianity without Christ for Paul and for Jews.
The more we have learned Stowers writes about Judaism as it actually existed more than the Judaism of Christian imagination, the more impossible it has become to give a historical account of the traditional Paul that's been created.
Summary. He's not that guy and we've learned that what we've learned. What else have we learned? Paul didn't convert to a new religion. He didn't revise Judaism into some new law, free Pauline version unrecognizable to the Jews of his day. He did not preach a radical doctrine of evil that was either ahistorically cosmic and personal or that posited a primordial, angelic like experience. With this Fall, we talked about original sin, we talked about Adam, we talked about the Fall. We put that in a Jewish that Paul would have understood that was appropriate for Paul. Fundamentally like other Jews he believed. We learned that the Gentile nations had rejected the God of all creation and were typified by certain evils which we read about as Romans opens up in chapter one. Paul accepted fully the Temple and other Jewish institutions, although he, like many other Jews would have had his own set of criticisms against those who were leading.
Therefore, Paul was fully capable of not only being Jewish but being dedicated to his people, fully able also to relate to the Gentiles, to the Hellenistic Roman culture, the culture of the Empire. He was as much a philosopher as he was a Pharisee, both an Israelite and a Roman citizen.
Therefore, we have learned to recognize Paul's rhetorical devices common among Greco Roman literature. At work in the letter to the Romans, the interlocutor. Thank you, Karen. The imagined argument opponent. The prosopopoeia. The speech and character that Paul uses throughout chapter seven. Piranesis or paranesis. Ethical teaching. Morality leading to humility, not a Roman attribute and self mastery. A Roman desire and a Torah attribute. That's what he's teaching. We've learned why Paul would use an interlocutor. He was the apostle to the Gentiles and he knew his authority was sufficient. His approach though, was skillfully crafted to say what needed to be said without saying it because he could use his interlocutor to say it for him.
We learned all about it and speaking of saying it, we've learned what Paul said. He spoke to Gentiles. They were his responsibility, not Jews. In his instruction he made it clear that conversion and works of the law, the outward signs, works of the law, the customary rites of Judaism were not appropriate for Gentiles. That God had welcomed them into the family of Abraham without being Jewish. That their faith was demonstrated in the likes of Abraham and then Jesus the Messiah and by the Jewish people through the ages. Where we understand that the Jews never saw the Torah as a means to salvation.
Never.
Neither did Paul.
It was a gift of God and it was made certain. What he taught them was. This was made certain to you by a promise to Abraham and now is made real for you through Yeshua. For the nations for the first time. And in a controversial interpretation of chapter seven, which is traditionally associated with Paul's full mental breakdown, right toward the futility of Torah understanding that the law is good, but not good for him. Romans 7 I delight in the law of God and my inmost self. But I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind, making me captive to the law of sin. Wretched person who will rescue me from this body of death.
We challenge that very significantly with prosopopia, speech and character, learning that Paul was teaching that it would be unimaginably blasphemous for Paul to be speaking like that of the Torah in such a negative light. The word of God, the covenant language of God in Israel. We learn that Paul quite likely is not speaking of himself, but a misguided Gentile who is seeking salvation in the Torah. Apart from my Messiah. Romans was about Torah and Judaism only in the sense of framing it in relation to salvation for the nations. That's where the Torah fit into Romans.
We learn these things and many others in those first eight chapters. But we also learned a lot of things that Paul did not say.
Romans Contrary to what has been taught, Paul did not say that all distinctions in Messiah were erased.
He did not say there is no distinction. Yes he did.
Galatians 3 There is neither Jew nor Greek. There is neither slave nor freeman. There's neither male nor female for you all in one in Christ Jesus. He said that. But he didn't say there's no distinction.
Why Linda and Steve.
Woman man.
There's still a distinction. There was in his day also between slave and free. And most importantly, there was a distinction along this journey for him of Jews and Gentiles. There was still an ethnic distinction. And Paul was a distinction. Distinction theologian. He knew the difference between Jews and Gentiles. That was a certainty. The difference is acceptable. The difference could remain, but discrimination could not.
All were welcome in Messiah. That's what Galatians 3:28 means. And everywhere else he talks about it. Distinction is not the problem. The problem is that if the distinction leads to criticism and separation and negative assessment of your brother or sister. Sister in Messiah. Especially those Jews who are unconvinced of Messiah and are driven away by the actions of the arrogant and the high minded. That's why Paul prioritizes humility among the Gentiles. He's still looking out for his people.
This was, as we learned, Gentile arrogance, a critical exigency in Rome. We learned that in chapters 9 through 11. And really this idea of humility and cooperation, that's what concludes the book of romans from chapter 12 to 16. That's what Paul's talking about. For all that Paul did say about the Torah, we also learned what he didn't say, right, that the Torah was off limits for Gentiles. He didn't say that. He didn't say that the Torah was bad. Paul did not say that Christian Christ following Gentiles should get as far as the synagogue and the Jews as they can. As a matter of fact, Paul understood because he was there at the Jerusalem Council, that the Gentiles would be invited into the synagogue where they would learn, where Moses would be taught every Shabbat.
He understood.
We know that Paul, in line with those brothers in Jerusalem, would have only assumed that the Torah would function in its capacity, as he describes it, as holy, just and good for Jews and for Gentiles, as a righteous compass for how you live your life.
The Torah remained relevant, though not required in the same way as for Jews. Which brings up a criticism and only one that you could ever muster against anything I'm saying, the criticism that a traditionalist could level at this series and this interpretation of Torah and Gentiles.
A critic could say, you're only saying this because you have a house full of Gentiles under the law.
Of course you're teaching Torah and that it's good for Gentiles. Of course you have to paint Paul in positive light regarding the law. Of course you're opposed to traditional interpretation that says Paul created a law, free Gospel. How plain could it be, brother? You want to see people under the law, all of them Jews and Gentiles. But the truth is, along this road, this Roman's road, I've really said very little about that because I don't care how much you do or do not do.
I never undertook this project to validate Messianic Judaism for Gentiles. It stands on its own. It doesn't need any validation or to justify the existence of Shalom Makin or to get more people to come here or speak ill of the Christian, of Christianity or the Church.
But I can tell you by way of the main things we've learned from this series, why I did it, why I want you to understand what Paul really says in Romans, to understand the biggest lessons we can learn here as Jews and Gentiles that could have and I believe still could change the world.
What I want us to see, what I believe Paul saw is the most important takeaway.
We serve you ready?
A big, big, powerful, all knowing, perfect planning, loving God, all of us, man. 18 weeks to get to that.
I could get that at any Joel Osteen teaching anywhere.
I'm not speaking ill of brother Joel. It was just the first name that came to my mind.
A big, big, powerful, all knowing, perfect planning, loving God, who loves every single one of his people, every single one, and desires also that every single one would be saved.
And you know, Paul makes it clear that. That. Well, he actually doesn't make it clear.
Romans 11. We're left with this. Three weeks spent between 9 and 11 ending in 9, 11 with all Israel will be saved. And then you just got to chew on that and you got to think about olive branches and grafting and all this. He doesn't exactly say it. And he says that God has shut up under disobedience all that he might save all, but he doesn't give us a lot of information about it. But he believes that.
He believes God can do amazing things. He calls the things that God can do mysterious. In Greek, Mysterion. It's a mystery. I don't want you to be ignorant of the mystery. Brothers, he says, and sisters, is Paul a universalist? Did it take us 18 weeks to get here?
I'm not saying that.
But I am saying Paul is amazingly willing to trust that God has a plan and he's working it out. And that plan, Isaiah 55, supersedes all that you could ever understand.
But until that happens, the book of Romans urges us as the people of God, Paul concludes his letter in these last chapters with this hopeful takeaway for his community in Rome. And even though Paul never expected that letter was going to have 18 weeks in Macon, Georgia, and that any of you were ever going to hear this 2,000 years later, 2,000 years later, his words still hold value when he says, may the God of steadfastness in chapter 15, verse 5 and encouragement grant you to live in harmony with one another in accordance with Christ Jesus, so that together you may with with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord. Yeshua, the Gospel for Jews and Gentiles 1 in Messiah verse 7, welcome one another. Therefore, just as Messiah welcomed you, why for the glory of God, welcome one another. He says it over, welcome. For I tell you that Messiah has become a servant of the Son, circumcised on behalf of the truth of God in order that he might confirm the promises given to the ancestors and that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy as it is written. And then he has a litany of Gentile centered scriptures. I'll confess you among the Gentiles sing praises to your name. He says, rejoice O Gentiles, with his people and again praise the Lord all you Gentiles and let the peoples praise him. And again the root of Jesse shall come, the one who rises to rule the Gentiles. In him the Gentiles shall hope. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace and believing so that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Thank you, Fred.
William Campbell it is the dual outcome of the work of Messiah that provides for Paul the conclusion to Romans that the promises of the patriarchs may be fulfilled and his people and that the Gentiles may enter into the kingdom of God as one people. My gosh, friends, the division that has come out of this book which is so much the opposite of what Paul ever intended.
As I said last week, Paul's main point through the book of Romans is one of inclusion.
Inclusion for Gentiles for eight chapters, for Jews for three chapters, for the world for four chapters at the end from 12 to 16 and for us all, all of us together as a people of God to close out the book. So I wanted to give you the perspective from this series because as I said last week, as as Paul said in Romans 14, this is what the kingdom's going to look like. There just will be a lot of bad things that we won't have to deal with this community.
Communities like this around the world where Jews and Gentiles are one in Messiah, where we accept diversity and distinction with no discrimination. Individuals around the world, Shalomis and others who understand that God did indeed choose the Jewish people, but he also chose the Gentile and can and should we all cherish our God given identity. It's not in or out. It's not either or. It's not chosen or unchosen. We are God's people and should live together in harmony.
That perspective could have changed the world certainly for Jewish people had the nations chosen.
It makes me emotional.
It's been an emotional week. I don't know why had the nations chosen, I got to stop. I got to have the nations chosen to follow Paul's instruction.
We might not have seen the anti Jewish sentiment and theology develop so quickly and with such prevalence.
Jewish people may have seen Yeshua in a totally different light than the way history has borne out this story which would have affected how Judaism from the first century onward saw Gentiles in Christ.
The parting of the ways was undoubtedly on both sides. But had they listened to Paul, especially on the gentile side, what could have changed?
Valentinus, Marcion, Melito of Sardis, Augustine, Augustine, Luther, so many others that took this book and turned it into something of hate and division and discrimination.
Those anti Jewish non believers in this Paul that we've learned about, had they seen him, had they seen the Paul we met, the mind and the heart behind the letter of the Romans, had they seen him as he was with the message he had, God only knows what could have happened. And we probably wouldn't be talking about this because the kingdom would have come long ago.
So in conclusion, I think I joke about critiques. There are a thousand critiques that could be leveled at my opinions, my presentation, our repaving the Romans road series. I know that because I know how deep these issues run. I also know how religion and dogmatic interpretation work. I live in that world and I know that someone could surely out argue me. But friends, I think that is exactly the problem Paul is addressing in the book.
That's not what it's about. And so the criticism is fine, that doesn't bother me. I can agree to disagree, no problem. But what I believe beyond all theological strong arming and dogmatic dramatics, I believe in a God as big as Paul believed him to be.
And I believe that he loves his people, everyone.
Or is God the God of the Jews only?
Is he not the God of the Gentiles also?
Yes, of Gentiles also. Since God is one and he will justify the circumcised on the ground of the faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we then overthrow the law through this faith? By no means, on the contrary, we uphold the law.
In the book of Romans I believe Paul spoke some of the most important words contained in our Bible. I've quoted them before and I pointed them out. And I want you to walk out these doors with this in your mind. Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all, if it is possible. Romans 12:18 so far as it depends on you. Live peaceably with all.
Could anyone ever find fault with that way of living?
Meganoito my friends, may it never be Shabbat Shalom.
Now I'm going to do something super weird because I'm super weird.
I told you it's been an emotional week, right?
And one of the weird things that has drawn out all this emotion from me is a country and western music song.
And of all the ways I could have ever imagined to conclude the book of Romans and 18 weeks of teaching, this is it. It.
This is the best one. And it's actually a love song and it talks about Merle Haggard.
But it has made me cry repeatedly.
Last night at Shabbat, after we were just sitting around and I put it on and I had to leave the room and go in Kelly's little quiet place and just cry.
And I'm building it up. You'll probably never cry.
But it touched my heart and I asked God, can I play a country music song to conclude Romans?
And he didn't say Meganoita.
So I'm going to play.
I'm going to take a chance because I'm a chance taker.
I didn't have Darren put any lyrics up or anything. I think you can probably hear him.
But it does have something to do with Romans.
[00:39:57] Speaker B: So an old man in a veteran's hat at the service station pumping his gas Pulled up beside him blaring beside Merle he said there's still some good in this world Hag was a poet for the common man Got him through his torn via the name he was the first dancing a brown eyed girl when there was still some good in this world when pulled out a picture that was sitting on his dash I lost my Lydia a couple years back Took that pension and I bought her those pearls when there was still some good in this world.
[00:41:00] Speaker A: Walked in the.
[00:41:01] Speaker B: Station put tent on Pompeii behind the register I could see it on her face right then and there I gave all kindness a world to show There still some good in this world so I pulled out a 20 told her you can keep the change Making ends meet ain't met on minimum wage don't make a dent but makes a day for a girl to show there's still some good in this world Thought about that old man's love on my quiet ride home Girl behind the register and the love of my own these days are numb but my perspective has grown Tonight I'm gonna hold a like tomorrow ain't gone yes, getting gas and tipping cash Change, change the way I see the world there's still some good not good as you girl.
[00:42:25] Speaker A: Played it in the wrong key and didn't mean you to clap about it but what in the world does that have to do with Romans?
That's the takeaway my friends.
You are the good in the world.
Be it. That's what he's saying. Be it. Do it. Love people.
Amen.
Let's stand. I'm Darren with Shalom Macon. If you enjoyed this teaching, I want to ask you to take the next step. Start by making sure you're subscribed to our channel. Next, make sure you hit the like button on this video so that others know it's worth their time to watch. Last, head over to our website to learn more about Shalom Macon, explore other teachings and events, and if you're so inclined, contribute to the work that we're doing to further the kingdom. Thanks for watching and connecting with Shalom Macon.
