Messiah Before the Foundations - Part 3

[00:00:00] Good morning. Good evening, friends. Good morning. Whatever time it is, by the time we finish today, it will be evening. [00:00:12] Um. [00:00:14] I've had an amazingly interesting week. I've had a lot of conversations with people in the congregation, texts, had some else, a lot of phone calls, lot of discussions about what we started talking about last week, Messiah. From the beginning. [00:00:36] In this week, I also had a moment of sheer and utter terror. That moment, if you've ever had it, where you're in the ocean and you realize how far out and down you've drifted like that, the current has taken you, and you look back and you're like a mile out in the middle of the sea. Not literally, but you're way out there, and you look to the shore, and where is everybody that you knew? And so here you are, out here in this sea. [00:01:09] And that was this slight moment of terror I had. Why? [00:01:14] Why would I have this? Because of the magnitude of information. Not information, the magnitude of the content that we're talking about. When you begin to delve into Messiah, when you begin to delve into where he's from, how he got here, who he is, what he is, all kinds of these massive, massive considerations, it can be daunting. And it's not because I don't know the information or because I don't know the material, that my feeling of terror was not because of regret or asking myself, why would I ever have done this? [00:02:04] It was understanding the weight that I have by choice taken on in teaching a subject. Because realize that what we're talking about is the stuff of heresy, the stuff of ancient heresy, gnosticism. Martian, who said that the old God of the Old Testament was this, but the New Testament has a new God and Jehovah's Witness, who have this certain vision of who Yeshua is, and Mormons, and they have somewhere in the middle of high and low christology. And there's just so much the Talmud actually even says, and I think I mentioned this before, you don't teach creation. You don't talk about what was before the six days. [00:02:57] There was another opinion that changed that around a little bit and said, you can talk about it, but you only whisper it between you and another person. You don't broadcast this. Now, one school of thought is. But Yeshua said, what you hear in secret, tell on the mountain, well, we could twist that around. But the Talmud is being very, very smart in saying that, because you can lead people astray by getting into places that you don't belong. And you guys are smart, but what is going on here requires that you engage your mind and your heart and that you ask the spirit of God to give you insight and discernment. And most of all, what you do is feel a drive to the word and to prayer, because there is a lot of information, there's some complicated stuff. But when the theological dust settles, and let me say this again by introduction, most people don't talk about these things at their congregational meetings. The meeting is we're not good people. Yeshua came and gave us salvation and you need to share that with people and you need to make a difference in the world. And that's a good message in the sense of being disciples. [00:04:33] I'll quote something later that I think speaks to this directly, but this is big stuff. It's big stuff when the theological dust settles, why would we do it? Why do we care? Well, knowledge can be power. Knowledge is valuable for writing papers and having theological discussions. It's valuable for articulating what you believe. But as I said last week, there is a lot more, and that's why we're here. There is a real world out there outside these four protected walls with real people who don't want to know theology or arguments. [00:05:20] They don't care about that. They would like to know and understand what you believe. [00:05:28] Well, actually, no, they don't actually even care that much about what you believe. But why you believe it, why? Where is the foundation that makes you a disciple of Yeshua? How did you get there from here? [00:05:45] And that, my friends, is particularly important part of our congregation as a purpose, when we are built and designed to communicate the truth of who Yeshua is, not through greco roman eyes, but through the eyes of Israel, through the eyes of the Torah, through the eyes of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and through the eyes of Yeshua himself, who he said he is. We should know that, especially when I'm talking to my jewish brothers and sisters who have 2000 years of confusion that blocks their way into that. [00:06:32] So clearly you are my priority. Educating, enlightening, opening eyes to some potentially new ways of understanding, but also the people you will encounter that I never will, that you can have an impact with, that your circle of influence extends to who may be confused. And by studying, by engaging, being involved, you open up in your way of understanding God. Something that is so big that it impacts other people. It's for you, it's for them. That's part of why we do it. But here's what I don't want. I don't want. [00:07:11] That was a good message. There was a lot of info. What did he say? [00:07:15] Or. Yeah. Five part six part seven part series on Messiah from the beginning and creation. Man, I think I like was. [00:07:30] I think I enjoyed it. I couldn't repeat any of it. I don't know what he was talking about, but I listened and I was liking it while I was there. That's not helpful. I don't want to do that. I don't want to overload you with information just to give you information. [00:07:48] So because we don't have a time limit or a deadline, we're going to proceed slowly and methodically through the material and give it time and space to sink in so it will impact life and lives. So if last week was an introduction, I think this kind of is, too. [00:08:10] It's a continued introduction. Last week, the question was asked, was messiah at creation the answer? Remember it? [00:08:19] Yeah. How can you forget such a definitive answer? [00:08:28] Someone told me after services, I'm interested in how you're going to have the best of both worlds. Just ask Kelly. That's what I always want. [00:08:41] We established pre existence. [00:08:45] We established that. We deconstructed the idea of pre existence as flesh and bone, as man. [00:08:58] And I gave you some reasons why. But I read a quote this week that I think really, really phrased it well. An english guy named G b cared in a book called New Testament Theology. Quote, there is all the difference in the world between a pre existent personification and a pre existent person. [00:09:21] There is all the difference in the world between a pre existent personification and a pre existent person. [00:09:29] I like that. But Messiah was there. And we went through a number of texts, rabbinical, rabbinic text, apocryphal text, midrash. We went through the apostolic scriptures. We went through a lot of ways that established that, both in jewish and christian understanding, Messiah was there. We looked particularly at a text that is used quite commonly to simply say, yeshua is God and he created everything. [00:09:59] First Colossians, turn there if you can. One. Colossians 15. Because this text is going to be important for many weeks. [00:10:10] I mean. Yeah. [00:10:13] What did I say? [00:10:19] Colossians 115 it is. I'm calling all books that turn. First beret sheet, please. [00:10:34] Colossians 115. He is the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creation. For by him or footnote in him is another translation. All things were created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible. Whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together man, you want to talk about a power packed, like, theological explosion of content right there. [00:11:20] And amazingly, some of these words are simply glossed over, but shouldn't be, especially for what we're talking about. The very first sentence. [00:11:34] He is the image of the invisible God. [00:11:40] Last week we talked about a translation from Tyndale that used the word it in John one instead of he. Do you remember that? It was there, the word and it. Okay, but here we have moved past it. Colossians is speaking specifically of he, the person Yeshua Hamashiach, who what? When saying he, it can only reference Yeshua. [00:12:12] It can only reference Yeshua on earth as a man. So the image of the invisible God, is he talking about Yeshua's physical attributes, that he looks like God, that he has this hair and a nice beard? And that's who here it is. If you want to see God, look at him, because that's what he looks like. No, that's of course not what he's talking about. And we know that God has no form. God is not a man. [00:12:37] That wouldn't make sense. [00:12:41] Or is the image of the invisible God what he possesses that makes him the son of God? This is basically rhetorical because you know the answer to that. We're talking about something other than physical looks. Hold on to this thought. Hold on to this thought. [00:12:58] He is, the Text says, the image of God, Hebrews one three. Goes on to say, he is the Radiance. Listen to this, Hebrews one three. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature. [00:13:19] Is EverYone lost yet? [00:13:23] No, HebRews one three. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature. [00:13:33] So we're talking about images, Radiance. We're talking about imprints of God's nature. But what makes him this? What essence? What power? What makes this for him? First of all, it is what has existed since before his human body, before creation. What we talked about last week, the spirit of Messiah, and we established that without a doubt that that pre exists, that it was before the foundation. And so what we're saying here is that God, Hashem, the Almighty, in more mystical terms, in Judaism, the ain Sof, the ain sof, the definition of God that is without end. That's what it means in Hebrew, literally, no end took this pre existent spirit of Messiah, which John connects to what the word LoGos. Logos. [00:14:47] And we'll explain that later when we get there, through which the Logos, the word that he has been working, Hashem ain't sof. God Adonai has been working in the universe and on earth from before the beginning. And he does what? He takes this and fills YEshua with it, fills him with this spirit of Messiah, and he becomes. CoLosSians two nine. Some scriptures to write down if you're not getting them now. Colossians two nine. For in him and the king James uses this word godhead, for in him, all the godhead. The fullness of the godhead dwells in bodily form, that word. And I know it's theological. There's no way around it. That word is used once. [00:15:50] Theotes. It's used once right there. [00:15:55] Many of your translations say the fullness of deity was in him. [00:16:03] It's a loose translation. Hebrews helps us here, too. Okay, stay with me. Hebrews one. Again. In the days gone by, God spoke in many invaried ways to the fathers through the prophets. But now in the Aharit Hayamim, this world, he has spoken to us through his son, to whom he has given ownership in everything, through whom he created the universe. Again, I'll read it. In days gone by, God spoke in many and varied ways to the fathers through the prophets. But now in the Aharit Hayamim, he has spoken to us through his son, to whom he has given ownership of everything and through whom he created the universe. Translation. [00:16:50] God's word has been active in the prophets in many ways up till now. But now God's word has gone to the next level. He has given Yeshua ultimate authority. He has made Yeshua his agent on earth. The same spirit of Messiah that God used to create the world is now in him and with us. And John or the author? No. John connects two messianic, pre existent themes that we talked about last week. What were they that the jewish writing speaks of the spirit of Messiah pre existing. And what else? Anyone remember Shem? [00:17:31] The name of Messiah. And here you have John connecting this. The logos. Logos, I'm sorry. Which has been active since before the beginning, has filled this yeshua. Now listen to this midrash, because it's controversial. [00:17:51] The king Messiah was born from the beginning of the creation of the world, for he entered into the mind of God even before the world was created. Again. [00:18:02] The king Messiah was born from the beginning of the creation of the world, for he entered into the mind of God even before the world was created. Now, here we go. Traditionalists are saying that is craziness, man. [00:18:15] And I always use that voice because it just to me represents the good old fashioned guy on the back of his truck windshield says, if it ain't King James, it ain't Bible. [00:18:29] That's a voice I like to use for him. [00:18:36] That's craziness. The first born king, Messiah born. [00:18:43] What's he talking about? [00:18:47] Well, back to our Colossians text, if you still have it open there. It says in Colossians one, something interesting which do not draw a conclusion from what I'm saying. Do not take what you think I'm going to say and draw a conclusion right now because we're not there. But the text says, he is the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creation. Okay. It also says in revelation three, and to the angel of the church or community in Leodicea, write the words of the amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. [00:19:29] That statement, the beginning of God's creation, is going to be very important for our discussion. So note it. Revelations three. [00:19:39] What in the world are you talking about, Damien? What does this mean? [00:19:46] The question I asked you last week was Messiah there at creation? The answer, yes and no. And so what I've just said very much is sort of a recapitulation of that. But last week we worked backwards. We looked at Yeshua to creation. [00:20:03] What I just did was the other way around presenting creation pre existence to Yeshua and what John is connecting here for us. [00:20:21] But there's a significant element that's coming forth, and that is the humanity of Yeshua. [00:20:33] Creation to Yeshua, the person, the human being. And we ever want to lose sight of the humanity of Yeshua, the divine human messiah, is what gives this relationship and his purpose really its fullest meaning. Very simply, John ties together these spirit of Messiah well known to a jewish audience, to the indwelling now of this spirit into Yeshua of Natserit. And thereby from this 18 verse text in John one, the prologue creates a plethora of opinions according to HIStoRy regarding who and what YESHUA is in the classic church Way. And I'll say Jesus, to say that Jesus is deity, Jesus is divine. [00:21:42] Jesus is not deity. [00:21:46] Jesus is not divine. But is this? But is not this. But is this. I told you the stuff of heresy. These councils that went on early on, much of the debate, argument and things they were settling out was these things like, who is he? [00:22:07] This group is saying this. This group is saying this. We have to establish something here, something that will stick. And in so doing, with a lot of different things that have kind of come together and culminated into, in essence, a christian way of looking at it, and I say a messianic jewish way, but maybe a jewish Way. [00:22:32] Two schools. One school says at this point that you have taken us to john one right here. At this point, jesus has become God. [00:22:52] And this is the fruit of. This way of thinking is the fruit of what christian tradition, the fathers, the apostolic or the church fathers. And all that went into getting here has been a long way, but it's been established pretty early on. [00:23:10] And this is the foundation of other foundational Christian beliefs. The trinity deity of YESHUa, et cetera. [00:23:23] The other school, seemingly informed by SheMa, by jewish thought, would say, that cannot be. [00:23:35] That simply cannot be. You cannot have YESHUa as God and HaShem as God. You have two gods. There's idolatry. It can't work. [00:23:48] So much so. And I don't want to mess this up, but that Christianity, in the middle aged jewish mind, there was a lot going on, a lot of persecution, a lot of bad stuff. But eventually it was like, okay, just give the christians Jesus. [00:24:11] He'll be their God. We will have the one true God. They're not going to call know pagans anymore because somehow or another, they're worshiping God, but it's their God. It's different. [00:24:31] That's very confusing for jewish people. [00:24:39] And so here again, I want to take you to John one, where it says in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and what comes next? [00:24:57] And the word was God. [00:25:04] The John one text would suggest actually state outright that the logos equals God. [00:25:18] And therefore, if the logos is to fill Yeshua, then Yeshua equals God. [00:25:29] Is that a math equation that doesn't make sense? [00:25:33] Does that make sense where you would go from the word was God, or the literal greek God was the word word logos, logos into Yeshua. Yeshua. Connecting would say Yeshua is God. [00:26:00] But I want to just ask and discuss and don't draw any conclusions based on what I'm asking, because you might not know where I'm going to end up. [00:26:16] Is that what the text says? [00:26:19] Is that what the texts that surround other parts of the apostolic scriptures say? [00:26:28] Because it is absolutely. That equation I just presented to you is the justification that says, yeshua, jesus is God. [00:26:39] Is there any reason to even discuss that? Why would you even consider messing with that? [00:26:49] Well, because there may be something significant in there that we miss if we just make that conclusion without taking the picture from before creation to creation, to the cross, to the coming back on the mount of Olives, to restoring the messianic age to the completion in the world to come Yeshua involved in every single. [00:27:21] And I never, ever want to minimize, decrease, demote Yeshua to any less than what he is. I want a personal moment. [00:27:39] And this is something that I felt this morning as I was preparing for this. [00:27:47] I have had see, Yeshua saved my life. [00:27:57] I'm not even talking about what's to come, talking about right now, because as so many people are, I was in a bad place. [00:28:12] I had been in a bad place, and I had what I will describe as an encounter, not a visible manifestation, not a Damascus road, nothing. I just had a realization, a reality of who he was and what he would do for me. [00:28:33] So I've experienced Yeshua personally very much. And he has been a part of my life since that day in my early 20s. [00:28:43] I've experienced him, though, in a way that some of you have not. [00:28:48] And that is, I have experienced him as a jew who does not believe in Messiah Yeshua. I have experienced him as basically a Christian. Because when I became a believer in Yeshua, that's what I was told I needed to do. Become a Christian, abandon everything. To the dismay of my dad's heart. [00:29:16] Little did he know what would happen. [00:29:22] And then through Yeshua, and again through my parents, I mean, God used my parents to reconnect me to Judaism, to the religion of Israel, to the religion of Moses, to the life of Moses and Israel, to experience Yeshua in a completely different and very powerful way. [00:29:54] The completion, but not in the way you think of. It's not like, oh, well, that just solves the story that puts it all together. That's the end. No, it was the beginning of the story. [00:30:03] And this whole journey and everything that I'm doing here is part of that story that, believe me, I never imagined myself doing this ever. [00:30:18] The day that I said that to Yeshua by myself, no one was there. I never thought that hashem, through my relationship with Yeshua, was going to bring me here, but here I am. And I say all that to say, I am never, ever going to put you in a place where Yeshua is demoted. [00:30:45] Okay? [00:30:55] And so when I say, is there any reason to discuss that? I am discussing this from very wide background of places I've come. [00:31:07] You know, I'm younger than a lot of you, but I've seen it all. When it comes, mean, I first encountered Messiah Yeshua at a catholic mass in Louisiana, probably hungover. [00:31:24] When I say I've seen it all, I've seen a lot. [00:31:28] Why discuss it? [00:31:31] Because it's important. It's important to understand what I'm talking about. And the question I asked when we consider it in terms of what the apostolic scriptures say, colossians, Ephesians, Philippians, revelation, yeshua being the beginning of creation and all things through him. And it all comes back to an idea that I don't even know if you're really aware of or think of ever. It's a jewish idea. [00:32:03] It informs Yeshua's existence, his purpose, an idea that we will see clearly with a review and study of. Not the greco roman way, not the tertullian way, not the augustinian way, not any other one of them. Origin way, the way of Israel, the jewish way of seeing it. [00:32:29] This idea will emerge again and again. John's way, Paul's way, the way of how God. [00:32:40] Immeasurable, inconceivable, ain't sof without end. God, Hashem Adonai can interact with Wesley Jones, how he can interact with this world, and how he has the idea that informs very familiar texts that are used to make a point that I've asked you the question about. Very familiar texts like John 1029 and 30. My father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the father's hand. Does anyone know what comes next? [00:33:19] I and the father are one. [00:33:25] Statements like we read already. Colossians two, nine. For in him, all the fullness of deity dwells. [00:33:35] What do we do with this? [00:33:43] What John does so remarkably well in such a jewish way is he takes this concept so familiar to Israel in his day, that God has worked through a shaliach, a sent one through history, and now the ultimate Shaliach, the ultimate sent one, has arrived. But it's not a new idea for John's audience, those privy to the culture and context, they understood this, and we're going to talk about it next week. But the agency, the memra, the word, the dibber, all these different words that you're saying, what the heck is he talking about? I'll tell you what it means, but it all is connected to how we see Yeshua working in the Bible and what we haven't seen yet. [00:34:42] See, here's the problem. God did not just one day look down and say, oh, well, the world's gone to hell in a handbasket. Let me jump into a body, we'll get this thing fixed, and, boom, back up. I'll be back when the time's righteous. [00:35:02] That is not how it works. [00:35:08] I'm afraid he's saying that now. But you remember last week's quote from the Talmud, tractate Megilah 13. The holy one, blessed be he, does not strike Israel unless he has created for them a healing beforehand, the remedy before the wound. [00:35:27] So we need to take a look at the role of the shalia, one who is sent, and in this case, the divine. [00:35:36] I want to talk about that word divine, but not now. [00:35:41] And it will all be framed squarely within these five words. And I don't know how many there are in Greek, but in English it says, and the word was God. [00:35:54] Before I let you go. And this is the conclusion I asked this question, this whole questions, to any answers other than vague ones like yes and no. [00:36:13] What will this do for us? Why does this matter? And I consider a quote that I received from someone that I respect very much in this congregation, a text, who we were talking about the difficulty of these things. [00:36:35] And he know from my christian upbringing, it's hard to relate to the essence of God and messiah without relating to Messiah as God. [00:36:49] He says, how to pray and praise Jesus experientially with my devotion and emotions. [00:37:02] If you start, and I'm paraphrasing, if you start messing with my paradigms, but that's the way I read it. [00:37:28] That is exactly what I do. Mess you up. I want to consider paradigms, because why do it? It's what I already said. [00:37:39] It's not to demote Yeshua. It's to explode Yeshua. Your awareness of who he is, what he's done, what he is doing, what he will do. [00:37:55] The last thing I would do, as I said, is minimize him. To remove him from his place. The place he was given by our father in heaven, the place that was before creation, on the cross in the world to come. Instead, to increase his glory, his prominence, his mission, and our connection. And I will not do it in greco roman ways. And that challenges everything. And it's okay. And for that, I want to read you something. Because David Stern, I consider a modern, messianic luminary. He has probably had more influence on non jewish people in the messianic movement than anyone else. How and why? By this. [00:38:35] Well, that's. It's in the COVID Whoever's got it by this. Right? By this. [00:38:43] Almost everybody who comes into the messianic community buys a complete Jewish Bible, and he has a commentary. And I studied it a long time when I was early in the days. [00:38:57] And yesterday, I told you, it's been a crazy week. I've really been banging my head against the wall. And you might say for that, what he just said. That was difficult. Yeah, that's very difficult. It's very difficult. [00:39:11] And I'm banging my head, and I come across and I see his commentary with its pages falling out and bent sides, and I'm reminded of this, why do this? Why? [00:39:27] And he says this, and I'll just briefly say it. A number of denominations outside the fringe of Christianity, including Jehovah's Witness, Christian Science, Mormons, Unitarianism, and unity, have a view of the messiah which is not exalted enough to square with what the New Testament says about him. This verse, it's talking about some of the verses we talked about and others in the New Testament. John 110 17, Philippians two present the messiah as divine, fully identified with God. [00:39:58] It's well stated, he says. [00:40:05] At the same time, this verse poses a no less pointed challenge to uncritical christians who confuse Yeshua with God the Father. [00:40:15] The New Testament almost never states Yeshua is God, but uses indirect expressions. Now, that's a pretty bold statement. This is a guy who is very well read and understood and studied in Messianic Judaism, and he talks about the dangers for christians of not being willing to examine their paradigms. But then he says this in the end, and this is the why Messianic Judaism must take on itself the task of expressing the Messiah's human divine character in jewish language, faithful to both the Tanakh and the New Testament. [00:40:53] This will be a useful corrective. Ready? [00:40:57] If you're worried about your toes, cover them up right now. This will be a useful corrective to the paganism that has crept into much popular Christianity. [00:41:10] It will also help Jews attracted to the new covenant faith, but trained to resist the concept of a messiah who is more than human. [00:41:22] As we declare the elena, which begins Alenu Leshabayach, it is incumbent on us, I would say this is incumbent on us. [00:41:35] Messianic Judaism. [00:41:38] We are the messianic community. And I told you I got a lot of questions from people this week, and that's good. [00:41:44] That's good. Makes me happy, makes me feel like I'm doing my job, and I will continue to do my job. And onward and upward we will go. [00:41:54] Let's rise for the Eleenu Shabbat Shalom.